Comments on: Four reasons to skip grad school http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/ Practical Career Advice for Women Who Think Outside the Cube Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:47:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Alexandra http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-47618 Alexandra Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:10:51 +0000 http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-47618 Hey Michelle, I am a career services director at a college (won't mention any names) but I find your site refreshingly honest and true. In my job, I help grads find jobs. Employers tell me over and over again that the education and skills are NOT The main things they are looking for. So unless a job REQUIRES a grad degree, get out there and get some experience! Internships that just have you fetch coffee CAN turn into real jobs if you work hard. A lot of folks out there expect you to "pay your dues". A great resouce for anyone job hunting is Cynthia Shapiro's book "What does it take to get a job around here? 44 insider secrets that will get you hired" I recommend it to our grads all the time. Another thing employers also tell me that is that new grads lack in professional skills BIG TIME. showing up ON TIME, getting along with co-workers, dressing professionally and speaking like a business professional (limit slang), these are things that will take you to the next level whether you have an advanced degree or not. Hey Michelle, I am a career services director at a college (won’t mention any names) but I find your site refreshingly honest and true.
In my job, I help grads find jobs. Employers tell me over and over again that the education and skills are NOT The main things they are looking for. So unless a job REQUIRES a grad degree, get out there and get some experience!

Internships that just have you fetch coffee CAN turn into real jobs if you work hard. A lot of folks out there expect you to “pay your dues”.
A great resouce for anyone job hunting is Cynthia Shapiro’s book “What does it take to get a job around here? 44 insider secrets that will get you hired” I recommend it to our grads all the time.

Another thing employers also tell me that is that new grads lack in professional skills BIG TIME.
showing up ON TIME, getting along with co-workers, dressing professionally and speaking like a business professional (limit slang), these are things that will take you to the next level whether you have an advanced degree or not.

]]> By: Michelle Goodman http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-44940 Michelle Goodman Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:45:46 +0000 http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-44940 Rachel, I would definitely sign up for a fiction writing class at your local college or through a local writing organization or center. Join a listserv like www.seattlewritergrrls.org (free; open to writers from all locales) so you can ask questions of your peers. And join a writing group for ongoing peer feedback. Rachel, I would definitely sign up for a fiction writing class at your local college or through a local writing organization or center. Join a listserv like http://www.seattlewritergrrls.org (free; open to writers from all locales) so you can ask questions of your peers. And join a writing group for ongoing peer feedback.

]]> By: Rachel http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-44827 Rachel Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:34:36 +0000 http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-44827 Michelle, This article was exactly what I needed. I've been in turmoil trying to figure out if grad school is right for me. I've talked to others who said it was unnecessary, but I fought tooth and nail, claiming that I want to go so that I can make connections and learn more about writing and have a writing community, and you've answered my queries on all those things. I'm also in the same place as Amy T. in that I feel if I had that kind of a structured lifestyle for awhile, it would propagate some better writing in me. But I have thought about writing residencies, so maybe I'll try that. As far as going to school for something completely different, I never thought seriously of it, but I'd love to go to culinary school! I'll admit I still feel unsure. I am completely sure that I want to write, for the rest of my life. But I use to write poetry and just decided two years ago that I wanted to write fiction. I'm completely new to it, so I feel like I need some strong mentoring. Thoughts? Michelle,

This article was exactly what I needed. I’ve been in turmoil trying to figure out if grad school is right for me. I’ve talked to others who said it was unnecessary, but I fought tooth and nail, claiming that I want to go so that I can make connections and learn more about writing and have a writing community, and you’ve answered my queries on all those things.

I’m also in the same place as Amy T. in that I feel if I had that kind of a structured lifestyle for awhile, it would propagate some better writing in me. But I have thought about writing residencies, so maybe I’ll try that.

As far as going to school for something completely different, I never thought seriously of it, but I’d love to go to culinary school!

I’ll admit I still feel unsure. I am completely sure that I want to write, for the rest of my life. But I use to write poetry and just decided two years ago that I wanted to write fiction. I’m completely new to it, so I feel like I need some strong mentoring. Thoughts?

]]> By: Barbara Saunders http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-36357 Barbara Saunders Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:04:03 +0000 http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-36357 Graduate school stands out as the only big regret I have in life. It cost me time and money that I will never get back, posing an obstacle to other goals. Graduate school stands out as the only big regret I have in life. It cost me time and money that I will never get back, posing an obstacle to other goals.

]]> By: Barbara Saunders http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-28205 Barbara Saunders Mon, 18 Feb 2008 22:27:22 +0000 http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-28205 If writing is what one wants to do, it's worth considering -- what proportion of living, working writers have a master's degree in English or creative writing? What proportion of English or creative writing degree-holders are able to make their living as writers? Makes you go hmmm.... As for teaching -- I would bet that there's more money to be made and more jobs to be had teaching writing skills outside of the academic market (on or offline.) When I worked at Sybase, a woman was brought in to teach business writing skills to engineers. I'd be surprised if she made less than $1000 for the two-day workshop. If writing is what one wants to do, it’s worth considering — what proportion of living, working writers have a master’s degree in English or creative writing? What proportion of English or creative writing degree-holders are able to make their living as writers? Makes you go hmmm….

As for teaching — I would bet that there’s more money to be made and more jobs to be had teaching writing skills outside of the academic market (on or offline.) When I worked at Sybase, a woman was brought in to teach business writing skills to engineers. I’d be surprised if she made less than $1000 for the two-day workshop.

]]> By: Michelle Goodman http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-27636 Michelle Goodman Mon, 11 Feb 2008 17:30:23 +0000 http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-27636 Thanks for the input, boohoo. I obviously can't speak to doing a regular teaching gig at the univ or community college level, but the online classes and writing center classes that friends and I have taught at (outside the university setting) have paid very well. And the pay is the same whether you have a higher degree or not. (Though I'm sure the pay leaps if you're a best-selling author.) But again, I'm talking about non-credit courses and people who are not interested in becoming full-time or 50%-time instructors. For most I know, this is a very part-time deal; something that comprises less than 20% of your income, gets you out of the house once in a while, and doesn't take too, too much time away from your writing week. Just a little way to mix things up financially and get your name out there. One travel writer I know, however, makes a majority of her (decent enough) income through online teaching. But I do get that some want to teach at the U level and will want the degree for that, which seem to be what you and Janna are addressing... Thanks again. I learn a lot from you guys! Thanks for the input, boohoo. I obviously can’t speak to doing a regular teaching gig at the univ or community college level, but the online classes and writing center classes that friends and I have taught at (outside the university setting) have paid very well. And the pay is the same whether you have a higher degree or not. (Though I’m sure the pay leaps if you’re a best-selling author.)

But again, I’m talking about non-credit courses and people who are not interested in becoming full-time or 50%-time instructors. For most I know, this is a very part-time deal; something that comprises less than 20% of your income, gets you out of the house once in a while, and doesn’t take too, too much time away from your writing week. Just a little way to mix things up financially and get your name out there.

One travel writer I know, however, makes a majority of her (decent enough) income through online teaching. But I do get that some want to teach at the U level and will want the degree for that, which seem to be what you and Janna are addressing… Thanks again. I learn a lot from you guys!

]]> By: boohoo http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-27633 boohoo Mon, 11 Feb 2008 17:03:04 +0000 http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-27633 Well, I would like to chime in on the "teaching issue". I have a few friends who have done the “guest lecturer” thing with only a B.A. while relying on their significant work experience. While I agree they are a coveted resource and part-time positions are available, I would also say they end up being paid quite a bit less than those with degrees and equivalent work experience (many times less experience with an advanced degree). For example, someone with work experience and a B.A. are generally invited to cover a specialized topic or course in during a semester, but are considered incapable of teaching general courses in their field (this is an academics opinion of course, but they are the ones doing the hiring for teaching positions). In my case I have an M.A. and on the few part-time teaching gigs I have taken, I have been paid at least $1000 or more than my friends with just B.A.'s doing the same thing. Part-time teaching with a B.A. is totally doable; it just doesn't pay as well for those with M.A. and PhD degrees. Also, if a person wants to teach part-time in conjunction with a professional “day career”, I would say it’s a minimum requirement to get a graduate degree at night while working part-time. Because without it, you will get paid less and have less offers to teach part-time. Well, I would like to chime in on the “teaching issue”. I have a few friends who have done the “guest lecturer” thing with only a B.A. while relying on their significant work experience. While I agree they are a coveted resource and part-time positions are available, I would also say they end up being paid quite a bit less than those with degrees and equivalent work experience (many times less experience with an advanced degree). For example, someone with work experience and a B.A. are generally invited to cover a specialized topic or course in during a semester, but are considered incapable of teaching general courses in their field (this is an academics opinion of course, but they are the ones doing the hiring for teaching positions). In my case I have an M.A. and on the few part-time teaching gigs I have taken, I have been paid at least $1000 or more than my friends with just B.A.’s doing the same thing. Part-time teaching with a B.A. is totally doable; it just doesn’t pay as well for those with M.A. and PhD degrees. Also, if a person wants to teach part-time in conjunction with a professional “day career”, I would say it’s a minimum requirement to get a graduate degree at night while working part-time. Because without it, you will get paid less and have less offers to teach part-time.

]]> By: Michelle Goodman http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-27509 Michelle Goodman Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:10:57 +0000 http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-27509 Janna, thanks for writing. I was just reading your post on your blog! (Ah, the wonders of Word Press.) I really enjoyed it. It's great to hear from someone who DID get so much out of grad school. My main thing is that people shouldn't be swayed into thinking it's the only way to go, if they're on the fence and wondering what to do next. Also, for what it's worth, many of the writers I know who teach (for extra income) do so through professional associations and writing/arts orgs, and/or are asked to guest teach at the university/conference level -- all of which I've done. So again, the master's wasn't required for teaching on the side. All that said, I'm so with you on the one-size-does-not-fit-all, to-each-her-own thing. Great to hear all perspectives. Thanks for sharing yours! Janna, thanks for writing. I was just reading your post on your blog! (Ah, the wonders of Word Press.) I really enjoyed it. It’s great to hear from someone who DID get so much out of grad school. My main thing is that people shouldn’t be swayed into thinking it’s the only way to go, if they’re on the fence and wondering what to do next.

Also, for what it’s worth, many of the writers I know who teach (for extra income) do so through professional associations and writing/arts orgs, and/or are asked to guest teach at the university/conference level — all of which I’ve done. So again, the master’s wasn’t required for teaching on the side.

All that said, I’m so with you on the one-size-does-not-fit-all, to-each-her-own thing. Great to hear all perspectives. Thanks for sharing yours!

]]> By: Janna Marlies Santoro http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-27506 Janna Marlies Santoro Sat, 09 Feb 2008 22:55:51 +0000 http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-27506 Michelle, I'm a relatively new reader hailing from Sacramento, CA. I appreciate the no one-size-fits-all comment here...Maybe it’s because I just finished my M.A. in English with an emphasis in creative writing that I got a little defensive after reading this. Either way, I wrote a little rebuttal with my own perspective, but the short of it is that 1. it does help in the employment department; 2. grad programs can't be condensed into one course the way an undergrad program probably can; 3. valuable connections are made in grad school that can only enhance a professional network; and 4. most grad students I know do work while they are in school. In fact, I held down a full time job for the majority of my program. At any rate, thanks for writing, I find your site helpful and stimulating (this post included). Michelle, I’m a relatively new reader hailing from Sacramento, CA. I appreciate the no one-size-fits-all comment here…Maybe it’s because I just finished my M.A. in English with an emphasis in creative writing that I got a little defensive after reading this. Either way, I wrote a little rebuttal with my own perspective, but the short of it is that 1. it does help in the employment department; 2. grad programs can’t be condensed into one course the way an undergrad program probably can; 3. valuable connections are made in grad school that can only enhance a professional network; and 4. most grad students I know do work while they are in school. In fact, I held down a full time job for the majority of my program.

At any rate, thanks for writing, I find your site helpful and stimulating (this post included).

]]> By: Michelle Goodman http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-27340 Michelle Goodman Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:51:11 +0000 http://www.anti9to5guide.com/2008/02/02/four-reasons-to-skip-grad-school/#comment-27340 Mir, that's a great point. Thanks for making it. Mir, that’s a great point. Thanks for making it.

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